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<  General Speed Chat  ~  A8 news

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:45 am
User avatarPosts: 1220Location: BroxburnJoined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:45 pm
IN another post it is stated that A8 is dropped from 2018.

Why drop A8 ?
This has a similar bad taste as the dropping of A7.

Where do those who want to compete on the basis of fastest and have classic sports cars go now ?

To the A Sports cars classes where they cannot hope to compete with modern spaceframe/non-ferrous chassis bike engined cars ?

No, I fear we will lose a trenche of drivers who provided great spirit and competition to the sport.

Why not just FIX the A8 so it returned to the INTENT of the original regs to offer a place for classic marque sports cars to go when the spaceframe bike engined cars came along.

How many entrants will we lose due to this action to the sport ? What analysis has been done ? I am not aware of any survey of drivers or clubs ( my club rep certainly never did )

Am disappointed that the removal of A8 has been followed through instead of fixing the real issue in the class by a simple clarification and reminder of the original class.

Talking to spectators some of the most loved drives are the classic sports cars at full chat.
Classic sports cars are a solid field at most events in the UK and Europe.

I struggle to see a rationale to remove it.



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:37 am
User avatarPosts: 954Location: PaisleyJoined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:57 pm
The change was in the chairmans message in October, why are you only complaining about it now?



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:35 am
Posts: 386Location: AberdeenJoined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:04 am
What classic sports cars are currently competing in A8 Peter?

There's D1 (Was A7 - it wasn't dropped due to a bad taste) and D2 for classic sports cars; or A 4 and A5?

And of course there's always A6 where there aren't any "Space frame bike engined cars" competing.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:54 pm
User avatarPosts: 1220Location: BroxburnJoined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:45 pm
JC wrote:
The change was in the chairmans message in October, why are you only complaining about it now?

The message mentioned INTENTION.

I dont agree with it , did mention at the time and hadnt seen any contact to drivers or via club reps.
No mention of any feedback given or sought in the decision.

Were A8 competitors asked ?

So not unreasonable to raise again , is it ?



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:11 pm
User avatarPosts: 1220Location: BroxburnJoined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:45 pm
SteveSlowboy wrote:
What classic sports cars are currently competing in A8 Peter?[/quuote]
The term classic isnt used there in the way intended I suggest. Thus "classic marque" was the actual words.
SO taknig the intent , then all the metal monocoque mass produced road going sports cars.
But that isnt the discussion for here perchance until wee see a full report of the process from last year.

Good point, worth asking where they went.
Mainly D1-3 is covering those older classic, but those which then were included which dont fit in the D specs woudl be intersting to know. Currently it is only cars up till 1981. So cuts out most of the mass produced sports cars still running today.

Asking back to the times of A8 it was mooted that it was to retain a place for steel monocque sports cars.
Plenty of those still exist and could be competitive, but not in the face of permitting trackday cars in for sure.
Quote:
There's D1 (Was A7 - it wasn't dropped due to a bad taste) and D2 for classic sports cars; or A 4 and A5?

Who said it was dropped for bad taste ? That would be unusual :)
More that losing a class. Albeit with very few entries :(
Quote:
And of course there's always A6 where there aren't any "Space frame bike engined cars" competing.

erm as far as I can see from last year ALL space framed :)
Is it reasonable to match up monocoque "classic style" sports cars with space frames with any form of handicapping ?

I do hope we see the competitors continue but hard to attract someone who wants to compete in a sports car if they look and see it's all LoCaterfields that they face ? Where is the "that could be me" attraction ?

Maybe A2 is the entry class from now on :) :)

Maybe I am over sensitive to it having spent the last few years trying to attract interest at shows and events and attending car club meets to see if get interest. Without attractive classes and new blood we are all getting older :(

Sadly the efforts to push for an S - standard road going class, arent coming to fruiting yet, but does offer us a place for the future to resolve some of this and offer those places for road going sports cars driven daily/regularly that A8 had. Again, for some (most) maybe that is of no interest but does offer new blood easy entry.

Unless we discuss these anew EARLY then we lose chance to make changes



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:52 pm
User avatarPosts: 263Location: Old RayneJoined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:35 pm
I'm not sure a class for completely standard road cars would help much as how many cars are truly standard that would be looking to enter? I would say those most likely to contemplate entering are those with track cars currently which are 99% of the time, modified in some shape or form. Making those guys slot in to classes easier would attract more I think.

I do really like the spirit of the mx5 class though and considered taking part but ultimately wanted a faster car for my own enjoyment.

What's the issue with A8 just now and why are they getting rid of it?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:11 am
Posts: 9Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:52 am
Well I for one was planning to compete in a totally standard MGF Trophy. However I don't know if it meets the requirements for A8 in 2017 so with around 8 weeks to go to Kaimes it's getting a bit late to organise this.

Martin Palmer


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:53 am
User avatarPosts: 263Location: Old RayneJoined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:35 pm
I dont think there is any change for 2017 Martin so you should be fine.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:32 pm
User avatarPosts: 383Location: EdinburghJoined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:24 pm
So an elise or s2000 would be in A6 as of 2018? So potentially up against 300hp Caterhams!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:03 pm
User avatarBroken BlokePosts: 3524Location: Old AberdeenJoined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:39 pm
Rusty wrote:
So an elise or s2000 would be in A6 as of 2018? So potentially up against 300hp Caterhams!

Don't worry, they are driven very sedately. ;)



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:54 pm
User avatarPosts: 416Location: LothiansJoined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:11 am
Or an MX5 that doesn't comply with the A9 rules......(eg a Mk3 or a Mk4)

There go my plans for a Honda beating turbocharged MX5. :shock:

Bad decision to my mind.



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 pm
Posts: 386Location: AberdeenJoined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:04 am
If you have strong views on the class structures in the various championships, speak to your club reps - or join your club's committee and get involved. The technical regs for the three Guyson Scottish championships had been kept fixed for a number of years to allow some stability. As this period is coming to an end soon, now's the time to discuss your wishes with your club.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:35 am
Posts: 285Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:05 am
Class structure change to further committee members aspirations . . . no shadow of a doubt . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:49 pm
Posts: 181Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:38 pm
D7PNY wrote:
What's the issue with A8 just now and why are they getting rid of it?

A very good question . . . . .

As an A8 Competitor, you might take the positive view that I could have a go at answering this from personal experience, or the negative view that I might have a vested interest or agenda. Take your pick !!

But lets try to keep it objective . . . .

The purpose of dividing cars into Classes is an effort to provide what is effectively a handicapping system, whereby any car might compete against other similar vehicles, with the possibility of being competitive.

My understanding of the history of A8 is that this class was created to resolve the problem whereby traditional ferrous bodied sports cars could not hope to be competitive against the increasingly light weight and bike engined cars to be found in Classes A4 - A6.

You could question why currently, with several hot hatches being extremely rapid, there is a need to distinguish between "saloon" and "sports" bodied cars, and why ferrous bodied sports cars could not or should not simply run in Classes A1 - A3.

Class A8 is unusual in a number of ways :

* There is no vehicle capacity differentiation.
* There is no differentiation between Road Going Series Production and Road Going Specialist Production Cars.
* There is no differentiation between ferrous and lightweight non ferrous construction.
* Eligibility is by named listing only, with an onerous application procedure.


However, . . . . . A8 has ticked along for a good number of years without significant problem, and competitors who have chosen, or who find themselves with cars that are only elegible for A8 have accepted that "That's just the way it is".

In the 2016, a Lotus 211 appeared in Class A8. My understanding is that there was considerable Scottish Committee discussion as to whether this car was eligible for A8, being a dedicated track car that could be made "Road Legal".

From memory, a similar situation arose in 2013 when a Westfield XTR2 was entered at Forrestburn in Class A4, and my vague recollection is that it was decided (by whom ?) that although this car might be "Road Legal" it was effectively a dedicated track car not best placed in A4, and that this car has since run in a modified class.

Certainly paddock opinion seemed to be that a 211 is not really a "Road Car" and does not really belong in A8, however the decision of the Scottish Committee was to allow its Championship entry.

So . . . A8 competitors lived with that fact, and just tried to beat it !!!

Then mid season the 211 had an aftermarket sequential box fitted, something that was never available as a factory option.

We currently have a situation where the Championship Eligibility Scrutineer has clearly informed one A8 Competitor on 09/01/2016 that they are not permitted to run a sequential box, and yet on 24/08/2016 the same Eligibility Scrutineer appears to be allowing another A8 Competitor to run an after market sequential box.

It could be argued that a Class which allows one competitor something, and disallows the same thing for another Competitor is no longer fit for purpose.

It is difficult to understand why anyone would think that the solution to this problem is simply to remove Class A8 from existence.

Current A8 cars would need to find a new home, with only A6 available, which would create a greater disparity of vehicle type in one Class, and guess what . . . . you have simply moved the same problems to a different class !!!

Or would this play out in the same way as the demise of A7, with drivers simply walking away.

SteveSlowboy wrote:
If you have strong views on the class structures in the various championships, speak to your club reps

Having the dubious privilege of being the Club Rep for EACC in 2017, I have the opportunity to attend the Scottish Committee meeting in March, at which I believe this topic will be discussed.

If you have any constructive input, please contact me at Ronnie at CrossBorderSpeed dot co dot uk
.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:55 pm
Posts: 9Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:52 am
I seem to have to enter my road legal MGF Trophy which is totally standard against a Lotus 211? At least I'll get more time on track to enjoy it!!!!!!!

Do you wonder why so far I've only registered for XBC so far?

Martin


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